thatmom

real encouragement for real homeschooling moms

august 8 podcast

“Probably the most subversive and effective strategy we might undertake would be one of militant fecundity: abundant, relentless, exuberant, and defiant childbearing. Given the reluctance of modern men and women to be fruitful and multiply, it would not be difficult, surely, for the devout to accomplish in no more than a generation or two a demographic revolution…..You see, His plan is to build His heavenly kingdom by saving those who are lost in their sins and bringing them into the light of salvation.  And He told His disciples to begin first with those closest to them and spreading out to proclaim the Gospel to all nations.”  Listen here for this week’s podcast entitled “Militant Fecundity vs Children as a Blessing from the Lord.”

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18 Comments»

  militarywifey wrote @

Just listened to this and it is great.

I was often one of those people that lumped the non-birth control people with the “militant” fecundity types. I think most people do. I am beginning to see a marked difference.

I think it must be frustrating to be of the “militant fecundity” mindset and not be able to have a large number of children. It is sad that women in these circles are judged on how many kids they can reproduce (in numbers) and not on how attentive they are to each individual child’s needs.

Also, aren’t those of us who choose to have small families (for one reason for another) still regarding children as a blessing from the Lord? Children are a blessing from God regardless of the number we have.

  thatmom wrote @

Next week’s podcast is going to flush this out in greater detail but I agree with you that it would have to be frustrating to believe that your salvation, either eternally or in the here and now, was bound up in family size and then be unable to have children.

Nancy Campbell, whom I quote in the podcast, says that the word “barren” even applies to women who have given birth but are now not pregnant. She uses that concept to apply all the verses in Scripture that use the word “barren” in reference to women, saying that women who aren’t having a large family, for whatever reason, are like Hannah and Rachel. More next week….

  sarah: Egalitarian Feminist wrote @

Karen, this is fascinating. Great work on tracing things to the Weyrich letter. Weyrich is a devout Catholic, but I am doubtful he would agree with the Militant Fecundity movement.

20 by 40? Well, I hope you plan to have 2-3 wives, because being constantly pregnant and having a ton of little ones will probably cause your early wives to die of exhaustion. Perhaps they ought to revise it to 20 by 60, to allow for courtship and remarriage periods.

I look forward to your next broadcast.

  One who has been burned wrote @

Excellent podcast! Thank you so much for your labors!

Hopefully, your hard work will rescue women and families from these types of groups!

Please know MANY are praying for your labors.

By the by, I could be wrong, but it seems to me that it was Gary North that either coined the term or popularized “militant fecundity” … could be dead wrong though … but it seems to me I was hearing him use the phrase “militant fecundity” in the early to mid 1990s.

  One who has been burned wrote @

I just remembered …

“militant fecundity” was purported to be a process where conservative Christians were to totally out populate the liberals in the USA … this was to be HOW conservative Christians were to take over the civil government (they were to take over the political parties in this countries)

… these conservative Christians were supposed to be so highly educated (via homeschooling) that they were to take over all areas of life (economics, universities, large corporations, utility companies, education, etc.)

it is my understanding that this takeover was to force those disagreeing with conservatives & conservative Christians out … those disagreeing with conservative Christians would be marginalized because they would not have the political clout that numbers of Christians would have

  thatmom wrote @

We were involved in the Gothard ministry in the mid-80’s and that is where we were first introduced to the idea of having a large family. There was much discussion about multiplying your influence within the culture, too. BUT, the attitude with certainly not what I would call that of “militant fecundity.”

I would be curious to see any quotes you come across that addresses this and if Gary North coined that phrase it would add another dimension to this I think.

  thatmom wrote @

And One, thank you so much for your prayers.

  One who has been burned wrote @

I know I have the quote somewhere … I truly do … I know, come on over and help me look for it … I’ll provide the white chocolate

  Cindy K wrote @

Karen,

I keep listening to this and can hardly take it all in. I get stuck on some outrageous point and have trouble paying attention to the next point you make…

Can you post some links to some of these things if online — particularly the Heritage Foundation and Cal Thomas stuff? I’m really curious to read this quote from Howard Phillips. How does functional withdrawal from culture and “outbreeding the competition” qualify as taking dominion (which we were told by Jesus to undertake by preaching the Gospel throughout the earth and making disciples)?

  molleth wrote @

GREAT podcast, Karen!

  thatmom wrote @

Here is the quote from Cal Thomas in context:

http://www.calthomas.com/index.php?news=237

There was no direct quote from Howard Phillips only several articles that stated that he had supported Weirich’s views. In fact, his was the only name mentioned where everyone else was criticizing Weirich.

  Lynn wrote @

Karen, that was an excellent podcast. What you are speaking of is one example of Cal Thomas’ point in his article, which I think is an excellent point. I am glad for Cal’s shift over the years to warn against political involvement as a panacea for societal decay (although he doesn’t counsel withdrawal, either), and militant fecundity is not that panacea, either.

It is the gospel and the Great Commission that should be our focus, and woe be to us if we get our eyes on schemes that sound good, but are not what God teaches.

  thatmom wrote @

In a comment from the WWF blog this morning:

“I visited a service once where the FIC pastor said in his sermon, “We might not be able to get them all to follow us, but we can out breed them.”

  militarywifey wrote @

Animals “breed”. People “procreate”.

Having children for the sake of “outbreeding” a population is a pretty sad reason to have children. Children require time, attention, love, and nurturing. If our only goal is to “breed” we focus only on how many children we can produce, not on how we can truly raise them.

I believe the Bible time and again fosters respect and love for the child. We are to take care of our children. Raise them right. Love them dearly. If we are just “breeding” them we are making ourselves like animals, who have children without care.

I have no problem with large families, as many excellent parents have large families. Many people want large families, but they do not have children simply to “breed”. They have children because they want them and love them. This idea that we are to just reach a maximum number of children is pretty ludicrous and biblically-off, if you ask me.

Look forward to Part II.

  Cindy K wrote @

This is a lot more that “Biblically-off.”

This is social darwinism and not Biblical Christianity.

But I suppose rejecting the idea that the Gospel and the Great Commission is about breeding out unbelievers makes me all the more a supposed Bible-rejecting, Communist baby hater. I guess that’s why I worked for Birthright (back before a CareNet came together in my town) and why we give to CPCs? Ah, but then, I suppose these folks think it’s a sin to help women do the right thing if they are not part of the militant fecundity “covenant community.” We already know what Wilson has to say on the issue. Wouldn’t you just love to know what Scott Brown and Doug Phillips have to say specifically about all that?

  Karen Godin wrote @

Dear Karen,
I love your podcasts. I’ve recently discovered you and have listened to alomst everything.
I have been increasingly troubled by what I am hearing, tho. And this latest revelation about militant fecundity is very upsetting to me. As a mom of twelve, I am disgusted to hear Christian men essentially using women to “breed” as a strategy for spiritual battle! Grrr! Reminds me of Jacob, sending Leah and her kids ahead to meet Esau. Creeps.
We’ve always been content with the number of children we had, yet delighted to welcome another baby. Since we’ve been blessed with great health and no complications, we felt God gave us the desire and the faith to have a big family. Been too busy all these years giving them that all important attention they need and homeschooling to notice these cults.
I’ve told my girls if a young man ever tells them that they can have a baby a year, they can just deck him.

  peaceofchange wrote @

Militant fecundity…wow..the attitude has a name….

I listened to your podcast after seeing your comment to me about militant fecundity….never having heard that term before, I was curious to learn more.

I am amazed that I walked in the circles and never heard the term. The attitude, however, I experienced first hand.

I was just thinking this morning about a post at Under Much Grace where she links those who have grown up with parents who were substance abusers become “users” of religion. One of the points was that these adult children have difficulty seeing good and bad in a person. It’s always either or….with that thought in mind, I began to wonder about this FIC movement and all the different facets of it. One being the “children are a blessing” facet. It is difficult for some too take that truth and still reject militant fecundity…because it’s either good or it’s not…right?

Your podcast helped me in reconciling these seemingly opposing thoughts. Thanks for taking the time to research and put the info out there for all of us who have been so adversely affected by this movement.

  dulcimeramy wrote @

Really, really good and helpful podcast, thatmom!
I especially benefited from the Bible verses you shared that so perfectly answer these false doctrines.

I’m so thankful for your podcast work. You are very appreciated by many busy homeschooling moms, I’m sure!


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